Introduction
This will be a review that starts from a position I have already established. Which is that I really like these knives from Zitoon Knives! So much so that they became my new first choice for rotational throwing and thus the knives I have competed with for the last year. Of course, that says something about what I think about the general characteristics.
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| Zitoon Knives le primitif rotation |
But I thought I would go into more depth about why I appreciate Le Primitif Rotation, as they are called and provide more specific details. In this way, I may be able to make it easier for those of you who are interested in buying a set.
Those of you who follow me either here on the blog or on Instagram have come across this brand before. Zitoon Knives is a small enthusiast brand from Normandy, France. Olivier Feret is found there, who both designs and manufactures these knives. In other words, we are talking about knives made in small series and largely by hand. I don't want to say that they are 100% handmade, because I want to leave that epithet to knives that are forged from scratch.
Appearance and Dimensions
For those of you who have seen my presentation of Le primitiv No Spin, you will recognise the look. This is exactly the same model, but on a larger scale. Regardless, it is a knife that exudes a certain rawness with simple but aggressive lines. According to Olivier, he was inspired by a computer game, "Hunt", when he created the model. And it was the design of the tip that he fell for. That is something I can understand, and as a bonus, it can be said that it is extremely effective. In a way, they are reminiscent of daggers in that respect, something I will return to. They do so especially because the long "false edge", even though throwing knives do not have any actual edges, makes the knife look and act as if it were double-edged.
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| What the knives look like after about 33,000 throws |
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| The thickness is 6 mm, and the rear ends are rounded. |
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| The tip is very effective |
Le primitif belongs to the 13" category. That is, knives that are 330 mm long.* The width of the blade is at most 42 mm, and then narrows quite quickly, as you can see. The handle is 29.5 mm at its widest point, and the thickness of the knife is 6 mm. Like the length, it is a common measurement for throwing knives. It is thick enough to hold well and give the right weight while being thin enough to provide good flight and good penetration.
These measurements give a knife that weighs 410 g. That measurement also falls in the middle of the intended categories, as primitif is neither the lightest nor the heaviest knives for rotational throwing. I prefer knives around this weight. Knives that are too heavy can fall off the target if the hits are not perfect, and they have a tendency to hit like axes, which grinds down the targets faster. In addition, it is harder if you practice for a long time, I might add. Although the latter primarily applies to No Spin knives.
Material
The French know what they want, at least when it comes to the choice of knife steel. A large part of French knife manufacturing has always turned to Sweden to meet the need. This applies to the production of both classic folding knives and throwing knives. However, it is not the same steel we are talking about.
What Zitoon Knives and some other manufacturers use is a group of wear or high-strength steels from SSAB that go by the name Hardox. They have serial numbers such as 450 and 550, and here the former is relevant. It is generally an excellent material for the purpose. As I said, it is made for tough jobs as it is usually found in dump truck bodies, dozer blades and the like.
The French's favorite steel for throwing knives. I found this label on a tractor bed.
Concretely, this means that you have a steel that is extremely tough and therefore does not chip or crack. This is provided that the hardness is not too high, of course. Throwing knives are hardened like regular knives, but then they are heat-treated to get a significantly lower hardness. Where a folding knife often boasts steel with HRC around 60-62 and regular fixed blades often hold 58-59 HRC, throwing knives are found around fifty. Very soft in comparison.
The reason is simple: regular knives don't hold up to the stress that throwing knives are subjected to. One or two throws are fine, but not if you practice with them. We're talking about hundreds of throws per practice session. Even good hits cause strong vibrations, and then we haven't even talked about broadsides in the target or close contact with the ground and other things that count as pure abuse.
To Throw
Le primitif rotation, or The Primitive as it is called in English, is a model that is completely made for rotational throwing. As usual, you can, of course, throw both Military Half Spin and No Spin with these knives, but it is not very good for that. In my opinion, I should add.
Generally speaking, it can be said about this model that it deceives the eye. It is the slim lines and the elongated tip that do it. Le primitif feels heavier than you might be led to believe when you first see it. Especially when compared to knives that are thinner and longer.
This, together with the weight, makes the flight predictable. Something desirable in a good throwing knife. This is a result of the knife having a stable rotation and also of the fact that it splits the air well. The latter means that the knife does not want to twist or get caught by crosswinds very easily.
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| Le primitif/The Primitive is a very good model for precision throwing |
Some of the properties come from the fact that the knife is neutrally balanced. Something that applies to the majority of knives for rotational use. The exception is some knives primarily adapted for very short distances, and displays** where slightly front-heavy knives are sometimes used.
Furthermore, it can be said about this model that it is a good precision instrument thanks to the properties mentioned above. Le primitif is a good knife for precision throwing from 3, 5 and 7 meters because of that.
Then something must be said about the tip. Mostly, it is devastating to everything it hits. That is, the penetration is very good. That is also an important feature when you really want a hit to stay in the target. "Stick", as it is called, is always important, but especially if you are competing. You do not want to miss points because a half-good hit falls off the target. It can be costly for the score.
However, thinner tips are both a curse and a blessing depending on what the knife is to be used for. As I said, it is excellent for keeping the knife in the target and for hitting smaller objects and not least for hitting, for example, playing cards. Succeeding with "centre cuts", i.e. hitting in the middle of a card without touching the edge, is much easier with a narrow tip. But wide tips have other advantages, such as covering larger parts of a target and thus increasing the chance of good scores.
- Rotational Throwing
First, it should be said that not all knives for spin throwing spin the same way. They all rotate about the same amount, that is, a turn of about three meters or just over. But, and it is a big but, how you get there is very different. Some knives give the feeling that they have to be "started", while others, like this one, spin more naturally. The thrower, therefore, does not need to add much speed himself. Then it varies how quickly or slowly a knife starts to rotate and how fast the turn itself is once the movement has been initiated. Generally speaking, a smaller knife rotates faster, but it also depends on how the handle is designed, etc. So far, I have left aside the thrower himself and his grip and technique, but that is another question.
Le primitif is very neutral on all these points. It starts to rotate relatively quickly but is not extreme in that direction thanks to neutral weight, medium length and medium weight. It also does not spin either late or extremely early. All in all, this makes this a very good model for precision throwing. This is especially evident from three meters, which is the closest distance in most competition systems.
My first impressions of Le primitif rotation from about a year ago
One of the things I like about this model is how the release feels. This is due to the design of the handle and the lack of handle sides. I also like the rounded back of the handle when it is held against the hand. The grip I have is a handshake grip with three fingers on the handle and the little finger slightly behind the handle itself.
But then we come to an area that is one of the main reasons why I chose this specific model to compete with. It is that the grip when you throw from the blade is relatively similar to that obtained when you throw from the handle. This is a big advantage when you engage in "Walk Back" and not just throw full rotations.
This becomes very clear when throwing from four meters. Here, however, the thrower must remember that the throw must strive towards the target, as I usually say. If not, the knife will overrotate, at least that applies to my technique. At both short distances, 3 and 4 m, the knife must be tilted quite a bit forward to avoid spinning too fast. This and the fact that the knife's flight is very straight mean that it is important to aim precisely at the target.
The grip from four meters is a firm four-finger grip with the little finger right where the top edge turns into a point. The angle of the wrist is completely straight. It is a good example of good design, by the way. The thrower does not need to adjust the grip because the designer has already done that.
About 33,000 throws later, this is still one of my favourite models for Walk Back
From five meters, the knife behaves somewhat the same, although the thrower has to adapt the technique slightly. I personally "pull" the throw when the handle is pointed towards the target in the middle of the movement. However, it should be done without force and fairly calmly. All knives have a natural speed, if I may say so. They can certainly be forced to rotate both slower and faster depending on the thrower's technique and strength. But if more force is added to the rotation than the knife's natural speed, you also have to recalculate the throwing trajectory and when the actual release should occur, as well as the angle of the knife in the hand to achieve the desired result. Many variables play into knifethrowing.
When it's time for six meters and grip on the blade again, I vary my feeling towards the same grip from four meters. Where I previously thought of aiming the handle at the target, I now get the feeling of starting the rotation earlier. If the knife is thrown forward from this distance, I can guarantee that it will not have time to rotate completely, and the miss is a fact. The grip is the same as at four meters without modification to my technique.
From seven meters, however, I change the grip slightly in relation to that from five meters. Now I only use two fingers to hold. The reason is simple: I actually want to be able to throw forward, unlike at shorter distances. In order for the knife to have time to rotate completely, the rotation needs to be accelerated a little with a "faster" grip. Otherwise, the rotation is "pulled" in the same way as at five meters. No strength is needed from seven meters either.
If you want to throw further, it can be noted that the knife is very easy to throw even from nine meters, as it feels fairly similar to throwing from seven meters. One danger is that you are led to believe that you have to use more strength and then over-rotate the knife. The only thing that is needed is that you change the throwing parabola slightly.
- Half Spin
The Le primitif is not one of my favourite knives for Half Spin techniques. That can be said right away. My favourite among larger knives for that purpose is another Zitoon model, namely the Spinning Dagger. This is especially true for underhand throws. Otherwise, I like even narrower daggers for the purpose.
The grip on the blade itself is quite good in this case, for that reason. As I said, the Le primitif is reminiscent of a dagger. So in that respect, it does not fail. But then there was the disadvantage that it is quite asymmetrical in its shape. The large "hump" on the blade always makes me feel like the knife wants to tip in both the hand and in the air.
Now it certainly does not do that to any great extent, but it feels that way. But if you measure, you can say that the balance point of the knife is not only found approximately in the middle but also along the intended centre line.
- No Spin
As a No Spin knife, it is both too big and heavy, as expected, while the shape of everything from the blade to the handle is excellent. The reason is simple: the knife, as mentioned earlier, comes in two sizes, one for No Spin and one for rotational techniques. Therefore, the properties of course follow, although it is not without problems to scale up the size. But in this case, Zitoon has succeeded well.
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| If you are going to throw mostly No Spin, you should choose the smaller model. |
The reason is that the increased mass, almost double that of many No Spin knives, means that most techniques fall short. It is impossible to flick or to accelerate a knife this heavy in an effective way. What remains is to use techniques like those that Ralph Thorn once launched. Simply put, when you throw large knives without rotation, you "hurl" the knife more than a flicked throw.
If that is your preference, this is a really good knife!
Conclusion
A couple of questions often come up when I'm choosing a throwing knife. The biggest one is whether to go for a type inspired by a dagger or a Bowie knife. There is, of course, a third variant, and the Le primitif is an excellent example of that, a throwing knife that looks more like a, well, regular knife!
Another question in my case is whether to go for a knife with or without a handle. The advantage of this type of knife without handle sides is that the "release", the moment the knife leaves the hand, becomes very distinct. But it also depends on the weather. If your hands are dry, I prefer bare steel, but if it is extremely hot, for example, a good leather grip is nice. Then the thickness is, of course, affected by the sides. So the choice is not entirely given. Both variants have their pros and cons, and in the end, it is mostly about personal preference.
Another big advantage of not having a more advanced handle, well, besides the fact that it holds better, of course, is that the knife feels more similar to grip regardless of whether you throw from the blade or the handle. In this case, the feeling is as similar as it can be without the knife being a pronounced dagger. A type of knife that otherwise usually excels in the field.
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| Throwing with a good knife is definitely something that sharpens the mind |
But the release is an area where one of Le primitif's great advantages is found. When that is combined with a relatively massive feel despite its slim exterior and a devastatingly competent tip, you get a precision tool. A knife that is good from three-meter distances, and this recurs in several competition disciplines. Not least applies to the moment like "Silhouette" where the target is made of planks. This knife does not fall off the target in the first place.
One of the knife's few weaknesses, or rather an area in which it is not as good, is long-distance throwing. At least I would like to have some small depression or similar in the handle or handle sides to get a better grip at distances from 11m and up. It is easier to get the power into the knife without increasing the rotation speed. Personally, I also prefer slightly longer knives for that purpose.
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| Crispy weather, crispy knives. Zitoon Knives has really succeeded with Le primitif rotation |
With Le primitif rotation, Zitoon Knives has managed to create a shape that works for both rotational throwing and No Spin by changing the size. It is actually not as easy as it may seem. Most models cannot just be scaled up or down like that and still work.
However, this larger version is a very nice acquaintance. As usual, it was actually the appearance that I fell for first, I must admit. There is not much else to go on when you do not have the opportunity to test the models. I have not been able to find any previous reviews of this knife either. But once in hand, it corresponds to all expectations and then some. This means that, as it looks now, I will be using this for several disciplines in the upcoming UKAT World Championships in Italy later this year. Especially in Walk Back and Silhouette.
The reason is simple, this knife is very pleasant to throw, also from the blade, which makes it a perfect choice when you have to throw from many distances. At the same time, an easily controlled rotation and a superb tip make it a formidable tool for all short disciplines, especially those that include plank targets.
These characteristics also make the knife very suitable for beginners as well as professionals. All in all, it makes it clear that I can recommend this knife without a doubt.***
Specifications:
Steel: Hardox 450
Length: 330 mm (13")
Width: 42 mm, at most
Thickness: 6 mm
Weight: 410 g
Point of Balance: Neutral, 17/16 cm from tip/back of handle
/ J - aiming for Italy with French Knives
* Knives intended for rotational throwing are usually around 30 cm (short), 33 cm (medium) or 35.5 cm (long). There are exceptions, of course, but most models are found in the three categories.
** For example, in Circus and Vaudeville, you would throw at or around a person. There, you almost always throw at the same, very short distance.
*** If you pass by the Växjö area and want to try this model or any other knife I have reviewed, please contact me and a demonstration and test can be arranged via Växjö Sportkastning.
