That I am something of a Francophile when it comes to throwing knives is perhaps starting to become clear at this point. I have a weakness for small French enthusiast brands and now have knives from brands such as Throwingzone, Zitoon Knives, Pierre Cazoulat and not least Lanceur de l'âme. Behind that name hides a knife thrower, and also knife maker, and a blacksmith named Maxime Blanchet.
This model, called CR04, is one of the simplest in the range. But that was actually what attracted me. The lines are clean, and the dimensions and weight were exactly where they should be. In addition, there were a few details that were already in the picture that revealed to me that I will probably like them.
Lanceur de l'âme CR04
One such detail is the design of the tip in relation to the handle. When a knife looks like this, it gives a grip that feels more equivalent when the knife is thrown from the handle and the blade. In comparison, another model from Lanceur de l'âme, Dague du competition, can be put. They are, in turn, knives made to maximise results in competition from precision distances of three, five and seven meters. This means that having a wider blade is an advantage, as it increases the chances of higher scores. However, it also means that the handle is narrower in relation; in this case, the ratio is three to four centimetres, respectively.
With the CR04, it looks a little different as the handle is 26 mm wide and the grippable part of the tip is 38 mm, where my index finger ends up, but the part in front of it is much narrower. This provides good conditions for a rotational knife. Especially as it is neutrally balanced. In fact, the weight is slightly closer to the handle than usual. Much depends on it being quite short.
A little coffee before I try to test the knives despite the winter darkness and drizzle.
The total length of the knife is 32 cm, and the thickness is just under 6 mm, which gives a total weight per knife of 375 grams. Excellent proportions for a knife for Walk Back. It is possibly a bit too light to be completely optimal for long-distance throwing, but otherwise damn good.
In addition, there are several details that enhance the general impression. One is how well-rounded all the edges are, and another is the bevels. But above all, it is noticeable in how softly rounded the transitions between blade and handle are, approximately where the heel of a chef's knife would be.
The steel is, as is often the case with knives from France, Swedish, and here we find Hardox 450. It has proven to be an excellent steel for throwing knives. Tough, impact-resistant and easy to sharpen if misfortune strikes and a tip needs to be reprofiled.
I am really looking forward to inaugurating them properly, but for that, we need slightly better weather.
More throwing knives are something you always need, is the first thing I want to say. Especially if they come from France, are partly handmade, and are developed by someone who actually throws himself. That guarantees that there is a solid thought behind it. All too often, when it comes to knives, an idea is copied without the person who creates it truly understanding what lies beneath the surface. But that is not the case here.
This model, simply named Dague de Compétition, comes from Lanceur de l'âme.
Lanceur de l'âme Dague de Competition
I don't really know much about this company other than that they are another small enthusiast brand from France. It was actually for these two reasons that I bought these knives and another model. Because I was curious. My previous experiences with French throwing knives are very positive.*
Another set of throwing knives from France has found a home
This model is quite massive, I must admit, and it is without a doubt the largest dagger I have. We are talking about a knife that is 340 mm long, 40 mm wide, and with a thickness of 6 mm, which gives a weight of 425 g. That is respectable regardless of the model and especially for a dagger whose double grinding removes a lot of material from the blade.
It must be admitted that I have thrown them a little, and I can reveal that they hit targets like a runaway freight train.
For those of you who are not knife throwers, I can reveal that these knives are pure rotation knives, and throwing anything else with them becomes artificial. Possibly that Military half spin is also possible, but it is almost like they are too wide to be comfortable for that. I will return to the matter!
I promised there would be more from Vulture Blades, and now it's time. The reason I took an extra look at this specific model called Smar 8 is that it belongs to a type of throwing knife that is usually categorized as an "Arrow" type. The name is not particularly far-fetched, given the shape of the knife.*
My interest in that type of knife comes from the fact that my first real throwing knives** for No Spin, were of that type. It was with them that I learned the discipline that I later specialized in.
However, it is quickly apparent that the Smar 8 is quite different from those knives. The material is not the same, but above all, the model is smaller, lighter, and more similar to the original. They also have a completely different design on the tip. Therefore, it will be exciting to see how they perform! I suspect that they will have good penetration ability despite their small size.
Vulture Blades Smar 8
In concrete numbers, this means a knife that is 210 mm long, 8 mm thick, and 30 mm wide at most. This gives a weight of around 190-195 grams. According to my scale, however, only 183 grams.
Fairly light, in other words. If you can divide No Spin knives into three rough categories based on weight, I tend to lean towards the middle/light nowadays. That is, preferably nothing over 260 g but also not under 200 g, normally. But there are always exceptions, and I suspect that these knives will be excellent for precision throwing at mainly shorter distances, say 3-5m. But that remains to be seen.
First day of testing! Smar 8 and a cup of coffee
Otherwise, it can be stated that the finish on knives from Vulture Blades is excellent. Fine surface area, really well-ground tips, and on the models that have holes, they are nicely beveled and polished. It is noticeable that a lot of time and work are put into the products from this company.
The material is the same Durostat 500 that is found right through the range. I don't know much about it other than that it is a steel with a high carbon content. When it comes to throwing knives, it is important to harden them well and then lower the hardness using heat treatment. What is good when it comes to regular knives is not when it comes to throwing knives. If the knife is too hard, it also becomes more brittle and risks breaking. That detail is definitely a watershed between simpler throwing knives and finer knives.
Now all that remains is to test these knives, and I will do that long and hard, rest assured! After that, you will get to know what I think of them!
/ J - back to the throwing roots
* One of the first named models was called just that and was designed by German knife thrower Thomas Thomas "Tom Tom" Hampich
Do you remember Steven Seagal's* character "Chef Ryback" from the movie Under Siege? The one who threw knives in the kitchen?** There is a very short scene, I think the actual throwing part is a few seconds long which is meant to show what a tough guy he is. Considering how short the sequence is, it has nevertheless become very famous.
As a chef and knife thrower, I would appreciate that scene if it weren't for how ridiculous it is. Let me explain why!
A toy knife from Gil Hibben compared to a real throwing knife. To use another movie quote "That's not a knife, this is a knife".
First, the knife he uses is a toy, more or less. It's a Gil Hibben model called the "Hibben Thrower" which I also have by the way. It is the one you see compared to a proper throwing knife in the picture above.
In the scene, it lies on a workbench to the right of a pile of what I think is celery and with what looks like a real chef's knife to the left. Hopefully, it is the latter that was used to chop the vegetables.
After shoving the vegetables aside, he throws the knife into a target hung on the galley wall. To the uninitiated, it might look pretty cool. For a knife thrower, it's rather a bit silly.
Real throwing knives that are modeled after a chef's knife. The model is called Philippe and comes from French Zitoon Knives
Second, the target is pure crap. IF you are going to have a small target indoors, especially in a kitchen with other people nearby, you should have some kind of end grain target. Knives stick much more easily in them, so the risk of ricochets is reduced and they also last longer. In addition, it can be stated that the target is very little used as there are only a couple of holes in it. Or Ryback has recently replaced it after chipping the old one to sawdust.
Then we won't even begin to discuss the, from a hygiene point of view, less successful idea of wood chips flying in a professional kitchen. But that is perhaps asking for too much realism from an action film.
A bigger problem with the target from a "toughguy perspective", however, is that there is a giant painted ring in the middle. A normal "Bullseye" for knife throwing is ten centimeters in diameter. This one appears to be about double that. Missing it with a throw from a short distance is impossible for someone who can throw a knife.
That brings us to the throw itself. It is very short with one rotation. All knives rotate a revolution of about three meters, slightly shorter with these toy knives. Light small knives spin faster than large ones. The throw is therefore performed at a distance of perhaps 2.5-3 m on a target that a blind person can hit.
Not that macho in other words!
/ J - The Swedish Chef who beats Ryback
* The film is from before the time Segal went completely crazy. You know, like make two hundred even worse movies, move to Russia and dedicate himself to licking Putin's ass.
** You can find the clip here "Cue ball". It is the last part of the scene that is relevant and it comes after two minutes.
As a knife thrower, you are often on your way to the next knife, to put it figuratively. Not because your material is necessarily bad, but because there might be something even better. Sometimes that feeling is just a nagging suspicion, but it can also be a knowing. In my case, the truth lies somewhere in between. I have won championships three years in a row with three different models. So some elements may not depend on the knives. However, with lessons learned from the previous competitions, there is possibly something better around the corner.
This time, French Throwingzone released a new model called the Pathfinder that piqued my interest. The Pathfinder looks somewhat reminiscent of the competition knives I have, with some significant differences. One has to do with the design of the tip, but the main one is probably that this model is lighter!
Throwingzone Pathfinder
The Pathfinder has the special ratio of being a full 8 mm wide while keeping the weight down to a relatively low 242 g at a length of about the same in millimeters, namely 245 mm. The length is quite normal for a No Spin knife. The thickness varies on this type of throwing tool, but the thinnest ones are around 5 mm and then there are knives up to a full 1 cm! I don't believe in the latter for various reasons. The most common is six or eight millimeters. For that reason, this model is also available in both dimensions. Six millimeters gives a weight of around 180 g. It is too little for my personal throwing style and in addition, it is not allowed in most competitions that require a minimum weight of 195 g. That version is therefore for home use only.
Eight millimeters of thickness has the advantage that there is a lot to grip around but above all to rest a finger against. That is the whole finesse of a wider back in this case.
But it tends to get heavy. A problem that is solved in a simple but ingenious way. Henry Guillaume who designed Pathfinder has simply removed large pieces of metal in the blade as well as in the handle.
When doing so, it is important to do it the right way. Otherwise, of course, the strength is compromised. The first impression is that it is done correctly here. This dimension can withstand a lot of abuse without breaking. Swedish Hardox steel is used, which is extremely tough and impact-resistant. You will otherwise find it in various types of excavator and bulldozer applications, for example. In addition, these knives are mostly handmade, which means that they are literally inspected by someone, and bad apples are probably rare. Apparently, Throwingzone thinks so too as they offer a lifetime guarantee against the knife breaking.
Pathfinder is designed by Guillaume Henry
I must also comment on how the tip is designed. Here you have what might be among the most aggressive blade shape that can be accomplished without making it fragile. The next step is to sharpen the blade to an actual live edge, but if you do, it won't hold up for knife throwing.
It will be very interesting to test the Pathfinder. If they feel like I think they do, these are my future competition knives. I have my suspicions about how it might behave. For example, I have noticed that there is an upper and lower side on the handle for use at different distances. A feature I had on an older set and appreciated. Likewise, I have thoughts about how the holes might feel and what the penetration might be like.
These questions and thoughts will all get their answers shortly and you will get to share them!
They say the third time's a charm. It remains to be seen if this is the best Acejethas released when it comes to knives for rotational throwing. Namely, it is their third model, together with Spinner Bowie, which was first out, and Maximus, which was released around the same time as this one. As the title says, it's called Achilles Vintage.
This model is available in three basic versions: Achilles, Achilles Spinner, and Achilles Vintage. The addition "Vintage" means that the knife has a leather-wrapped handle. It is available in three colors: white, as here, or black or brown.
Then there was another suffix to the name, and it's something I've featured before on my Raven IIs: "Shadow Steel." That's Acejet's name for this dark, slightly purple tone on the steel. It is not quite as black as some pictures make it appear. As I told you before, I'm a bit torn about it. It's pretty, especially when paired with a white handle like this, but the question is, how practical is it?
Acejet Achilles Vintage
The appearance is quite striking. Aside from the color combination, it's a dagger. Personally, I'm still torn between whether I primarily prefer that type of knife or Bowie knives for rotational throwing. Both types are represented among my competition knives.
In addition to color and shape, Achilles is remarkably thick, a whopping 8 mm. Even that is eye-catching. A stock thickness of 5 or 6 mm is more common for this type of throwing knife. Otherwise, the knives tend to be too heavy.
Here, that problem has been solved in two ways. Firstly, the knives are quite small. They measure 30.5 cm in length, which is 12". A minimum measurement in some competition contexts. There are also rumors of a 13" variant, which is not available at the moment, however. The width is a maximum of 35 mm just before the finger guard and at the widest part of the handle including the leather. The finger guard or rather what symbolizes one is 43 mm wide.
The second is that the blade has a large cutout which is also reflected in the shape of the handle. It is through the latter that the leather is wrapped.
The Shadow Steel version looks great with a white leather handle
A bit annoying is that under "full specifications" on the website, one of the most important measurements is not included, namely weight. It just says "Thanks to the holes in the handle and the blade, the ideal weight for long training sessions was achieved." That's something I'm happy to decide for myself, thanks!
Incidentally, the weight per knife is 325 grams according to my scale. To be honest, it is too little to be optimal for a rotational knife, in my opinion. Achilles really feels very light when you play with it a bit. It will be interesting to see if my first impressions hold even after the knife has been properly tested. Namely, I have my suspicions about certain proportions and how they might behave.
The material is Acejet's usual 14260 spring steel. Here transformed into "Shadow Steel". That said, it's nice, especially paired with a bright leather handle. But it has a tendency not to be seen in leaves and grass and in addition wears away with a lot of use. However, I fell for the look in this case.
I intend to come back to this knife in a couple of ways. Both in some form of "throwing report" with some film clips and in a full-fledged review, of course!
It was, of course, only a matter of time before the fifth model in this series would be acquired as I had previously presented the other four. The series I'm talking about is "XL" from Yggdrasil Forge. It simply means that the man behind this one-man company from Manchester, Joe Bardsley, has made the knives one size larger. This model is named Shard.
Then, of course, it can be discussed whether they are to be considered extra large. I don't think so. But on the other hand, I haven't tried the originals.
Yggdrasil Forge Shard XL
In this case, extra-large means a knife that, like the others, measures a length of 25 cm and is made of 6 mm thick material. Incidentally, the material is 1080 carbon steel. The height of the handle is at most just over 31 mm. This gives a total weight of 251 g. This makes it the second heaviest in the series as the cousin Muninn XL ends up at 255 g. The Original Shard is three centimeters shorter and weighs around 200 g.
The finish on this knife deserves a mention as it is unique. Here, the original colors from the heat treatment have been left behind, which gives a shimmering, almost oily-like appearance.
Variety is nice, but otherwise, I'm quite skeptical about darker throwing knives for mainly two reasons. For one thing, they tend to be harder to find outdoors, and believe me, if you learn how to throw a knife, you also have to look for them. And partly, all dark coating and surfaces have a tendency to rub off. This is especially true for throwing knives as they need to be maintained with a file occasionally to remove metal splinters and large nicks. How it holds up in this case remains to be seen.
What remains to be seen is also how Shard XL behaves when it is thrown. Primarily, it is a knife designed for no spin, but since it is fairly neutrally balanced, it most likely works well as a smaller rotation knife.
Some knives are more sought after than others. These definitely belong to that category. I have been searching for a long time for a set of knives signed by the great German knife thrower Werner Lengmüller without success. Now it must be pointed out that it is not particularly difficult to get hold of them, it is mostly about money but that is precisely what has been missing. If you don't want throwers handmade by him, that is, he has stopped making knives. Instead, he has outsourced the work.
The brand is WL Custom Blade and the manufacturing would in other knife contexts be called "mid-tech". That is, they are made in small series mostly by hand. What is special about knives labeled WL Custom Blade is that they can be purchased from two different sources. In the US they are made by Prince Steel Knives and here in Europe by Throwingzone.fr. This means that they actually differ somewhat. The basic design is of course the same but the grind, weight, and materials are actually different.
The thickness is 6 mm and the handles are 3D-printed handles. The length is 32 cm and they weigh 450 g for this version of the Spinning Butcher
The material in this case is Swedish Hardox. It is steel found, among other things, in protective plates on dumper flatbeds and bulldozer blades. Tough as nails, in other words. But what is unique about these particular knives are the handles!
They are not the first in the world, similar attempts have been made before but not quite with this quality from what I heard. The handle sides are made with a 3D printer! It is a technique that I have never come across in this context, so I do not know exactly what type of plastic it is. It should be noted that this set found on these knives are prototypes. It will be interesting to see how they behave over time, read "hold". The first feeling is great. They have a slight texture to them that makes them resemble G10.
If you want them more traditional, they can of course also be had with classic leather handles or completely "naked".
The first feeling says that if I just have time to get used to the model, these will be my knives for rotational throwing in the upcoming Nationals 2023. The question is whether it was love at first sight or first flight?
Some knives are simply more beautiful to look at than others. This knife called TheIron Mistress from French Zitoon Knives is a prime example of that. There are of course more throwing Bowies on the market but not many that are as stylish as this one. It simply has extremely appealing proportions. This applies both to the ratio between the length and height of the blade, the long and elegant clipped part and the size of the handle in relation to the blade and finger guards. Designwise I think this is a masterpiece.
Zitoon Knives The Iron Mistress
It is stylish as heck as I said, the question that remains is how it throws? It's an area I intend to go a little deeper into here.
Appearance and Dimensions
In my presentation of this knife, i quoted the makers who claim it's a reasonably faithful version of the knife that a certain Jim Bowie is said to have once ordered from the knife smith James Black. That may or may not be true. But these seductive proportions are the result of a collaboration between the man behind Zitoon, Olivier Feret, and Pascal Boucreux who is a prominent French knife thrower mainly in rotational technique.
The result is The Iron Mistress, which incidentally got its name from the classic film from 1952 with Alan Ladd in the lead role as Jim Bowie.
A solid Bowie knife with good throwing properties
With those conditions, it is not so surprising that this is a sturdy knife, although it must be said that it is not exaggerated in any way. It is 35 cm long with a thickness of 5 mm. That gives a total weight of 420g. That makes it my second-heaviest throwing knife so far.
The knife is the result of a collaboration between Zitoon Knives and Pascal Boucreux
Right from the start, the handle has been fitted with sides of leather that are glued and riveted in place. A traditional way of making handles for throwing knives. Handle slabs made of other materials simply do not last and are often more difficult and expensive to replace. In addition, the leather gives a good feeling when the knife leaves the hand.
Material
Like many other French knife manufacturers, Zitoon Knives preferably uses Swedish steel. In this case, it comes from SSAB and is called Hardox 450. It is generally an extremely tough material as it is classified under the category of high-strength steel. It is thus the type of steel you find in excavator buckets and in dozer blades for bulldozers and the like. Not exclusive in terms of composition and cost, but very durable considering the intended applications.
Then a couple of pieces of leather can be found on the handle as mentioned. They are of good quality and attached with a pair of sturdy brass rivets. The only thing I did to them, other than wear them in a bit, is to round the edges of the leather with an edge iron when the knife arrived. I also added a protective layer of beeswax. It's always a good idea with leather grips.
To Throw
Anyone who knows anything about knife throwing realizes that this is a knife designed for rotational throwing. Simply put, it is too long and big for most forms of no-spin throwing. Possibly with the exception of those using techniques inspired by Ralph Thorn. There, the whole arm is used as a sling, which means that even very large knives can be thrown.
After a couple of thousand throws, the handle has darkened. But the knife is durable and exudes quality
Right from the start I realized that it is a knife that is very suitable for precision throwing. It is noticeable that the people behind this model throw competitive. Namely, the Iron Mistress rotates very predictably, allowing the thrower to concentrate on aiming instead of spending time on the rotation and flight. A very pedagogic knife if you can put it that way.
- Rotational
It is of course under this heading that the strengths of the Iron Mistress are found. It is particularly noticeable from three meters distance, where you don't have to think very much at all. It may be emphasized that one should stand slightly behind the line due to the size of the knife. I stand at a distance of about 3.2 m. The throw must then be carried out fairly calmly in order to have time to develop and give the knife time to complete its turn. Then it hits the target with authority. The grip is fairly simple. I'm assuming the same grip that many classic Bowie knives were held in, i.e. a saber grip with a thumb on the back of the handle behind the finger guard. It gives the right height to the handle and then the thumb is moved down the side of the handle in a hammer grip before throwing.
From four meters, the long clipped part of the blade gives plenty of space to grip. Personally, I have the tip at the little finger, which gives the right height to the grip, and if you then close the hand, it also gives the right angle of the knife, at least for my throwing technique.
From five meters, we are back to gripping the handle, and then a relatively careful throw applies. The knife is quite long, so both backswing and follow-through are needed to get the right rotation. Here, too, calm is required. A stressed technique does not give the throw time to develop and the knife underrotates.
From six meters, I move the grip down a bit on the blade so that I feel the "rotation point" against the index finger. It is the place on the knife blade that the knife wants to turn around when you hold it. AndI want the throw to strive forward. Nota bene, the knife should not be thrown forward, the movement should still be round, but there must be a strive towards the target, so to speak.
From seven meters, no special adaptations apply. But again, it's important to take it easy and not take any steps or lean forward. Such tics tend to make the throw inconsistent and can lead to both reduced accuracy or missing the throw entirely. Of course, this does not only apply to these knives but in general.
It can be added that when The Iron Mistress is shifted to throw from the blade, i.e. four and six meters, the feeling is of course different than from the handle. This is where Bowie knives differ from daggers when it comes to throwing knives. The latter are significantly more symmetrical overall and the shape of the handles is more reminiscent of what the tip looks like. That is of course not the case here. Instead, it is important to shape the clipped part of the blade in such a way that it is easy to grip. It is something that Boucreux has managed to perfection.
- Half Spin
I don't know if it's just me, but generally, I prefer daggers or knives with narrower blades when throwing half-spin. You can certainly grip the tapered tip of the Iron Mistress, but the feeling remains and that is that such wide, heavy knives like to capsize in the air with that kind of technique. But it applies to "Military half spin" which is what I throw. And since it is too big in my opinion for effective "Instinctive half spin", the only thing left is "Natural half spin" where you grip the tip in the same way as for throws from four and six meters respectively. Given those conditions, it works great. Except that I personally do not master that technique at all. Only the gods know why. But there it is hardly the knife that sets the limits. It becomes particularly clear as I consider it to be excellent for throws from precisely four meters!
- No Spin
As usual under this heading, I'd like to add that this knife can certainly be thrown with No spin technique like anything else but it's admittedly not good for it. Possibly if you use some Thorn-inspired technique you can get somewhere but otherwise not. Zitoon has many other knives that are extremely focused on this area if that is what you are looking for.
Conclusion
The Iron Mistressfrom Zitoon Knives is both a beautiful and effective throwing tool. For those looking for a knife with, to say the least, a classic look and which also has calm and harmonious qualities in flight, this is an excellent candidate.
So far, there have been around 1700 throws with this knife for me and it is those experiences that form the basis of this review. In fact, I'm so pleased with it that I'm considering supplementing my single knife with two relatives to complete a set. It becomes easier to throw and without a set, it is also not possible to compete with the model in question.
I like the knife so much that I chose to make a sheath for the knife
Incidentally, there is a reason why large Bowie knives in various variants are popular in competitions. The size and accompanying weight provide a predictable rotation that is easy to feel and calculate. The weight also contributes to the fact that the thrower does not have to use a lot of force, that part is taken care of by the rotation, which increases the accuracy. At the same time, the knife is not too heavy, which can not least be a problem when training. One throw is not exhausting, neither is ten or a hundred, but a couple of thousand is.
The Iron Mistress is a really good throwing knife for those looking for a Bowie model
The question is even whether this model is good enough to compete with my other favorites that I currently use for competition. Even those from France, by the way. It remains to be seen! But I really like this one!
"Is This A Dagger Which I See Before Me?" Yes, my dear Macbeth, it is! From the battlefield via literature and film to knife throwing. There is something special about long narrow knives with double edges and that fascination goes back through history.
Zitoon Knives Spinning Dagger
This also applies to these throwing knives, despite the fact that this variant is not actually very narrow and is also not sharp. We're not talking about stilettos. But still, the impression itself is very "daggery", streamlined and symmetrical. The knives in question are, as the title already says, Zitoon KnivesSpinning Dagger, handmade throwing knives from Normandy in France.
Appearance and Measurements
For daggers, these are, as I said, quite wide. In concrete figures, this means 38 mm which must be set in relation to a blade length of 180 mm. Although that measurement is pretty uninteresting on a throwing knife to be honest. But it gives the proportions. The total length, on the other hand, is of greater interest and is measured at 320 mm. It translates to 12.5 inches which is probably not a coincidence as it is a length required by some organizations if you are going to compete. Above all, those rules are found in the UK and the USA.
The thickness of the knife is a fairly normal 6 mm. The dimensions together give a total weight of 370 grams per knife. It is not extremely heavy while being relatively much for a dagger.
Spinning Daggers are quite large for being daggers
In terms of appearance, Spinning Daggers are simple and straightforward. You could also say stylish. In addition to the double edges, they are characterized by a glossy polished finish and a pattern on the handle. The latter also provides a bit of tactile feedback when holding the knife.
The double-edged blade is 18 cm long and 38 mm wide
The pattern is laser etched and there are holes for attaching handles if desired
In addition to that, there are two holes in the knife if you wish to provide them with some form of handle sides. In that case, I would suggest leather attached with a couple of rivets. Most other materials have a tendency to break when subjected to the enormous stresses involved in this case.
In addition to that, Zitoon's logo is also found engraved on the handle.
Material
For some reason I'm not familiar with, it seems Swedish Hardox steel from SSAB has gained a foothold among French throwing knife manufacturers.* Now that is not a bad thing as it is generally an excellent steel for throwing knives in my experience. However, it is not really for the area of use it was designed for. The steel (with added numbers like 450,550) belongs to the group of high-strength steels and is found in applications such as dumper flatbeds, excavator buckets, teeth for bulldozers' rip hooks, etc. Really tough tasks, in other words.
What can be said is that is very durable in this application too. It can handle the hard hits throwing knives are subjected to including the occasional hit from other knives. Therefore, it has immediately become one of my favorite steels. It is also quite easy to grind. A feature that is very desirable in throwing knives as they often need to have some jack or sprained tip adjusted with a file and sharpener.
To Throw
For those who know their throwing knives, it is quite obvious what these knives are primarily intended for. A quick look at a picture is enough even if you missed the name. Spinning Daggers are, of course, classic rotational knives. To those who are not as well-informed, it's the type found at the circus, which means that this model deviates in all areas from a no-spin knife. This applies to shape, length, and relatively high weight.
But of course, all that does is that they instead live up to their name. Length and weight make them rotate somewhat more controlled or rather slower than smaller knives. In return, the knives are completely neutrally balanced, which on the other hand increases the rotation speed. The format with the double-edged tip also means that they hit targets with authority and have high penetration. Something that I particularly appreciate as I currently only have access to fairly hard targets made of birch. They demand their knife, especially before they are a bit worn.
Spinning Dagger is easy to learn rotational throwing with as the balance is completely neutral. It is actually found where the logo is
When you start throwing with these knives, you realize pretty much immediately that they are really good as precision instruments. During the test period, an online competition called "Aim Games K19 - The River"* took place. It was the first time I participated in one of these and for that these knives were chosen. Or the "knife" in that case since in this specific round you are only allowed to use one.
One of my contributions to Aim Games K19
In this challenge, the idea is to hit triangle-shaped fields in order to get as many hits as possible on another v-shaped surface. A narrow tip is therefore preferable to a wide one and that is exactly what a dagger offers. In general, it also provides higher impact force, which means that you don't need to add much force for them to stick firmly. That in turn makes it easier to aim. In fact, if you do not throw calmly and harmoniously, the result will not be good. The knives have a tendency to over-rotate in that case.
Rotational Throwing
My first impression of the Spinning Dagger was that they felt surprisingly heavy. I had to think for a while about why because the weight in grams did not correspond to the first feeling. But the explanation is probably twofold. For one thing, it's a dagger and they tend not to be very massive. The visual impression, therefore, fools you. Then I think it depends on how they are held. The length means that they need to be gripped in the rear, tapered part of the handle, which means that it is a bit further to the balance point. A majority of the 370 grams thus simply ends up a bit away from the hand.
For me, the correct grip from 3, 5, and 7 meters, i.e. the distances where the knife is held in the handle, was to hold the knife far back with the index finger just in front of the broader part of the handle. With a semi-firm grip, the knives naturally want to leave the hand at the right moment. However, that grip must be compensated for by angling the knife forward, towards the target in order to dampen the speed of rotation and thus avoid over-rotation. The further out you grab a knife and remove yourself from the center of rotation, the faster it spins.
Basic throw from three meters with the Zitoon knives
Once the grip is found, the knives feel very neutral. The weight in combination with the weight distribution means that the knives naturally strive toward the target. The rotation is calm but still nimble. The flight path is straight and the knives, if they are not affected, tend to end up at shoulder height.
From three meters it still applies that the knives have to be "started", they have to be made to rotate with a fairly short movement close to the body to get around and you can't be careless with the "backswing".
Spinning Daggers work at longer distances too but I prefer them at shorter distances
From four up to seven meters, it becomes increasingly clear that the knife wants to rotate quickly and it, therefore, benefits from being thrown firmly and methodically but not hard. The word "majestic" usually comes to mind when I see the knives flying. At the same time, the knives need to be thrown for "real", and "non-throws" does not work. By that I mean you have to find the right amount of power. Most knives benefit from a real throw, but here it becomes extra clear. The Spinning Daggers are not forgiving like that.
At short distances, you can also "punch" the knives into the target, i.e. throw almost instinctively with rotation
Once the right angle is found, these knives are very easy to throw. This means that it is also possible to throw them with what is sometimes called a "punch" technique, you "slam" the knives into the board with a flick of the wrist. It is not exactly a competition technique but a type of throw that can be used anyway. That type of throw becomes almost instinctive and very hard.
Half Spin
Although these are knives that at first glance appear to be excellent for half-spin techniques, they are not favorites in that regard. At least not for me. On the one hand, in that case, I prefer knives that are slightly rear-heavy and on the other hand, I think the blade is too wide to get a comfortable grip on. But the same applies here that it is no problem to throw half spin with them, whether you throw with "normal", backhand or underhand throw.
Then it matters that I mostly use "Military half spin" with a thumb on the side of the blade. Then the knife feels wider than otherwise. For those who throw "natural half spin" and thus hold the knives in a handshake grip with one of the edges pointing towards the target, the feeling is different.
No Spin
The reasons why this is not a knife for this type of throwing are the same as why it is good for rotational throwing, but the other way around.
Despite that, it is of course perfectly possible to send the knife away without rotation if you are good enough and above all, it applies to short distances. Then the index finger is placed on the side of the ricasso and then it's just a matter of throwing. But it doesn't feel quite natural to me. This is due to several reasons. One is that the knife is fairly neutrally balanced and a no-spin knife is usually somewhat to very back heavy. If they are neutrally balanced, they are instead shorter.
However, what you feel most when you hold the knife in that way is the weight. Most knives for anti/no-spin throwing weigh between 200-270/280g. Knives for spin throwing rarely weigh that little. What gives authority in one case begins to feel unwieldy in the other.
The other thing that bothers me is the long handle. When the Spinning Dagger is gripped for this type of technique, the handle sticks out of the hand down onto the wrist. It is also not optimal.
Although they are not ultimate for no spin, it's possible
But as I said, it is possible to throw no spin with these knives as seen in the video above. Mostly because most things can be thrown that way.
To Conclude
Zitoon Knives is perhaps a brand you may not have heard of before. But they are well worth taking an extra look at. I started by taking inventory of their traditional/rotary throw models for the simple reason that I was in a period of that when these knives were acquired. However, Zitoon is actually perhaps better known for no-spin knives, so I will have reason to come back in that case. In particular, there is a model I have in mind called Big Slim II which I understand is a success.
These are knives of very high quality. At the design stage, it is noticeable that the knives have been thoroughly tested and that the knifemaker himself is a knife thrower. Furthermore, the material is well-chosen and the execution is excellent.
Then it should be added that this is a small one-man company so the knives are to be considered custom or semi-custom depending on how it is now defined. That is, they are made by a man who grinds them and completes the work by hand but they are not forged but machine cut, and the patterns laser etched. But the same can be said for most knives on the market today. However, after contacting Zitoon, you can add or remove details if you wish. Thus, I would call them custom knives.
Spinning Dagger is a really good option for those who want a powerful dagger to throw with
About the Spinner Dagger, it can be said that the symmetry of a dagger not only affects appearance but also how they are thrown or rather how they are gripped. There are both advantages and disadvantages to the basic shape. The big advantage is found in the fact that there is no up or down on the knife. Whether they are to be pulled or tucked away in a sheath or passed from one hand to another to be thrown, you don't have to think about which way the edge is pointing. Not infrequently, throwing knives otherwise have different characteristics depending on which keel they are thrown with the edge down or up.
In this case, the knife is gripped as far up the handle or blade as you are used to, and then it is just a matter of throwing. Similarly, this model is designed so that the grips in the handle and blade resemble each other thanks to the coil-shaped appearance.
But therein lies the downside. The fact that the Spinning Dagger is a symmetrical knife also means that the handle does not tell you exactly where to hold it as clearly. Not in this case anyway. The indexing that is present is the bulge on the center of the handle. Then it can be reinforced by, for example, making the handle a little fuller with leather grips.*** Or that wasn't entirely true, the pattern found on both sides of the handle actually helps a little bit.
My first meeting with a model from Zitoon Knives was really successful. There will be more!
Without a doubt, my first encounter with Zitoon Knives was a positive one. Initially, I was hooked on the look but then it was the accuracy characteristics that kept me throwing with the Spinning Dagger. Then I don't know in general if I choose a dagger for throws at longer distances, but the jury is out in that case, as they say.
But at shorter to medium distances these knives are excellent. So if you are looking for a particularly well-made dagger for that type of throwing, Spinning Daggers is a model you should seriously consider.
Specifications:
Steel: Hardox 550
Length: 320 mm
Width: 38 mm
Thickness: 6 mm
Weight: 370 g/styck (weighed by me)
Balance point: neutral, 160 mm from both tip/handle
/ J
* It is also used by Throwingzone for example.
** At the time of this writing, I was ranked seventh in the world in the said competition. It was then interrupted by personal reasons for the organizer.
*** Something I've done with other daggers I throw.
